P0238

All your other probs if any.
Artermis
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Location: Grimsby, UK

P0238

Post by Artermis »

Morning gents,

Re: 2005 1.6HDi 206cc

I hope everyone is well and has had a good festive period and new year?

My wife has celebrated her 1 year ownership with her CC in December and so far has had a largely trouble free experience, over and above typical wear and tear type stuff.

Yesterday she returned home from work and advised that the car has given an anti-pollution fault message on the info display and engine light is on. She reports it drives just fine so I don't believe it's in limp mode or anything extra-fun like that.

It's only ever done this once before right when we first got it and I put that down to DPF. It was owned by a little old lady to run across town to her part time supermarket checkout job, which didn't do it any good at all. I gave it an Italian tune up at this point and it never returned until now. The wife now uses it for her regular commute of about 40 miles each way which involves a significant motorway stint, so it's getting better use.

I've read the codes on it this morning using my ELM and generic OBD software and it's got P0238 and P1351 showing.

P1351 I'm not overly concerned about as reading around this seems misfire / glow plug related and potentially even phantom code. She's not coughing, smoking or smelling particularly which I'd expect from dead glow plugs but I'll work out throwing a new set in there anyway just to be sure and check they glow up on ignition. Glow plugs seem a git to get to on these - under the airbox and you cant see them to get to them?

What I'm struggling with more is knowing anything about the P0238 code. There isn't any sign of it on this forum previously. Has anybody got any clues or experience with the code?

The generic description suggests it's to do with boost control circuit, so either the turbo solenoid or possibly map sensor? I guess EGR and DPF will have to be considered for blockage in case they're causing back pressure build up too? Pointers on EGR welcome, I don't know where they're hidden on these engines..

I'll order up a cheapy PP2000 too which I hope will be able to give me some more specific information over and above the generic stuff.

Advice, guidance and wisdom very much welcome. Cheers, Ben
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

IanL
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Location: Jersey, Channel Islands

Re: P0238

Post by IanL »

I did a search on http://www.peugeotforums.com and got:

P0238 : turbo pressure signal
characterisation of the fault. : Short circuit to positive
Status . : Permanent fault
from . : local .

There is a lot of experience of diesel faults on that board. Not surprising, because there are so many Peugeot diesels, and they are far more troublesome than the petrol ones.

Most of the advice about glow plugs is to ignore them - they say the HDi engines don't really need them.

johnbrander
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Location: Warrington

Re: P0238

Post by johnbrander »

Generally you don't need glow plugs for staring, but I think you do need them for passive DPF regenerations, but are essential for "forced" regenerations

Artermis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:18 pm
Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

IanL wrote:I did a search on http://www.peugeotforums.com and got:

P0238 : turbo pressure signal
characterisation of the fault. : Short circuit to positive
Status . : Permanent fault
from . : local .

There is a lot of experience of diesel faults on that board. Not surprising, because there are so many Peugeot diesels, and they are far more troublesome than the petrol ones.

Most of the advice about glow plugs is to ignore them - they say the HDi engines don't really need them.
Cheers Ian. At least being a zero code it's a generic code so the description has to be fairly on point. What's weird is I've had map sensors fail before and they've put the car in to limp mode.

Typically I expect anything turbo / pressure related to put the car in limp mode to save overboosting and grenadeing the motor and the wife is reporting that it's driving just fine. Went to work and back yesterday again and it was driving nicely albeit with the engine light on.

I've ordered a lexia cable I hope to be here later this week and for the sake of £30 I've ordered a new MAP sensor from EuroCarParts too. At least that way we can eliminate the sensor.

I'm still expecting to have to replace the plumbing and/or turbo actuator valve too but when I've replaced these on other vehicles I've had to calibrate, so expect I'll need the lexia and planet for that.

It'll be the weekend before I can inspect any of it in daylight now anyway, unfortunately, so here is hoping she holds on till then!

Cheers.
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

Artermis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:18 pm
Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

johnbrander wrote:Generally you don't need glow plugs for staring, but I think you do need them for passive DPF regenerations, but are essential for "forced" regenerations
Hi John,

I had heard the same thing as this. I'd heard that the french diesels weren't particularly reliant on their glow plugs at all, albeit the 1.6 was a bit more keen on them than the 2.0.

When I've dealt with italian stuff in the past the software has been able to give me a % DPF blockage figure, based on the pressure readings I would assume, then allow a forced regeneration if necessary - which is fun to watch!

Hoping planet with lexia when it arrives will be able to advise me of the same or similar so I can decide whether I need to force it to regen. That might force my hand with changing glow plugs if it refuses.

I'd serviced the car previously myself but neglected to do the glow plugs on the basis it wasn't exhibiting any signs of needing them and they appear to be a pig to do. See lots of horror stories about people snapping them - which is something I really don't want to encounter!

It was always obvious to me as a driver when my Alfas went into regen, you could tell by the way the car behaved and the crap coming out the back of it. Problem is the CC being the wifes car I never get to see or tell if it's happening and I can be damn sure she'd never notice anyway.

It'd sure be nice if they'd programmed something you know a bit like the service indicator of service due in X amount of miles for the DPF filter regen.

Cheers.
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

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Capncol
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Re: P0238

Post by Capncol »

Have you checked Eloys bag if fitted?
Cheers Col.


206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)

When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.

Artermis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:18 pm
Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

Capncol wrote:Have you checked Eloys bag if fitted?
Hi Col,

No, I haven't. This is something I've been struggling with to be honest. I understand the additive and its purpose but I don't know a definitive way of checking a) whether my/the wife's car actually is setup for it and b) how to actually tell if it needs any.

The last point I think planet may be able to give me some indication on whether it's got any but cable was only dispatched yesterday, so going to be a few days before it arrives.

I had been doing some research to see if I could work out where a tank should be but I couldn't find anything reference the 206cc. There is nothing obvious in the engine bay but it looks like on other models it's a small white tank hidden away underneath the car. I've not had the opportunity to get underneath and do a visual hunt for it yet.

If someone can give an indication of where and what to look for I'd be very grateful.
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

Artermis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:18 pm
Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

OK, situation update.....

Yesterday I ordered a new MAP sensor from Euro Car Parts. I sent the wife out to pick up the sensor in the cc and she said the car was still displaying the error.

She then said that she had to get some fuel so went in to town and get some diesel. She says that once she put some fuel in the error message and engine light went away.

Not overly impressed with that, having spent £35 on a decent quality MAP sensor for nothing... I could take it back but I'll just keep hold of it.

This makes me think that the DPF is the issue. I dont know why but somewhere in the back of my mind I have it in my head that on Peugeots there is some kind of sensor setup in the fuel cap that is used to trigger a regen cycle on the DPF when fuel is added. Is this correct?

I'd still like to get to the bottom of the issue if I can :-)

Thanks all.
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

IanL
Posts: 1378
Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 10:34 pm
Location: Jersey, Channel Islands

Re: P0238

Post by IanL »

The Handbook for 3/05 to 12/05 does include:
If a message on the multifunction
display indicates a low diesel additive
level accompanied by an audible
signal, this additive must be topped
up. Contact a PEUGEOT dealer as
soon as possible.
The preceding book does not. You can't take the dates as gospel - the build dates for changes can vary a few months from the dates stated for the books. Not all planned changes hit the production line at the same time - what is in your car can only be determined from the Service Box Documentation.

If you post the last eight of your VIN, I should be able to see in the Service Box whether your car has the reservoir.

The following may be of interest:
Operations to be carried out on the particulate emission filter with 80 000 Km (EOLYS DPX42 additive) or with 120 000 Km (EOLYS 176 additive) or when the system is clogged

1. Replacement of the particulate emission filter assembly
ESSENTIAL : Observe the fitting instructions.
1.1. Removing - refitting


Remove the particulate emission filter .
1.2. Return of parts and packaging
Parts will be returned via the secoia channel under the following conditions :
The clogged filter will be plugged and placed in the plastic bag supplied with the new filter
The whole lot will be placed in the same box as the new filter
1.3. Parts required


1 Particle filter .
1 Supplementary kit (Including) :
(/) seal ( catalytic converter - Particle filter )
Assembly clip ( catalytic converter - Particle filter )
Positioning shim
1 Exhaust clip : Diameter 66 mm.
2. Filling with additive
Fill the additive reservoir .
Parts required : Filling kit .
3. ECU initialisation
Initialise the additive dosing ecu (Using the diagnostic equipment ) .
4. Invoicing time


Removing - refitting : Particle filter : 1.00 .
Filling of the additive reservoir : 0.40 .
5. Recycling of additive and receptacle
5.1. Additive fluid
ESSENTIAL : The additive recovered must not be reused in any circumstances. it must be stored in the same container as the brake fluid and power steering fluid.
5.2. Additive kit
The empty packaging and the kit pipes (which are specific industrial waste) will be stored in the soiled packaging container.
The opened cans (which must never be reused) and the overflow cans will be closed carefully and stored in a special container while awaiting collection by an elimination/recycling service (A 20 litre plastic container cut at the top is ideal) .
ESSENTIAL : The refilling kit, containers that have been opened and empty containers must in no circumstances be reused.

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Capncol
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Re: P0238

Post by Capncol »

Not worked on the 206 diesel, but other Peugeots have the additive in a bag or tank near one of the back wheels (it injects into the fuel tank)
If it's a bag, it is in a protective box and the bags do have a tendency to split, and they are not cheap.

Going back to your original post. Have you checked the wastegate is moving and the boost control solenoid pipe isn't blocked or split? Also the solenoid itself?


If you had an overboost problem, normally would put car in limp
Cheers Col.


206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)

When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.

Artermis
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:18 pm
Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

Morning gents,

Car is a 2006 but like you say, what that translates to in build dates I dont know.... VIN is ending 4 7524366.

No error or warnings on dash regarding additive, that would have been a no-brainer to address but alas nothing. I will have a look under the back end at the weekend to see if there is evidence of the system being there. Car has done just over 100,000 miles so reading around if it was fitted I'd expect it to have used up the 4.5 litre bag now (I've been doing some more research). I think rough guidance is for about 1 litre for 20k miles use as a real rough estimate. As said though, if it's been broken or damaged that could be a different problem.

I was expecting to look for it up front a bit like the addblue stuff to be injected into the exhaust stream but now realise that Eolys is dosed into the fuel tank.

Interesting what is mentioned regarding the replacement of the DPF. I was beginning to consider replacement of the DPF for the sake of £150. In car terms that's fairly cheap really. I think an Eolys bag would run me to the same sort of money too. I was intending to look underneath and see where the DPF was located and how difficult it looks to replace before I consider doing it myself or sending it to a garage to do for me, as I dont have a lift to work on.

Col; I haven't visually inspected anything, in truth. Not had access to the car in daylight to have a look. Like you I'd have expected limp mode for overboost particularly but it's continued to run just fine. The car boosts fine so the kit must be essentially functional, so a perished or damaged vacuum pipe is more likely, I'd wager.

I was hoping when I got my lexia through I could run actuator tests on this stuff to test, like I can with my italian and german kit.

It's very odd, having the fault warning but none of the symptoms I'd expect to go with it. Any other car I've had that's shown a signal high on the boost sensor has been stuck in limp mode, or at least hits limp mode the moment you try to accelerate anywhere. The thing is essentially running fine though :-)
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

IanL
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Location: Jersey, Channel Islands

Re: P0238

Post by IanL »

Your car does have a FAP, so should have an Eolys tank. The parts diagram does not specifically id one, but I think it must be item 21 here:

Image

The name is probably a bad translation. I've compared to my petrol 206cc, and that does not have one.

I have also found this, which is interesting.

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Capncol
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Location: Reading & Southampton

Re: P0238

Post by Capncol »

Can't read French Ian, but if it's a cleaning product, I find a pressure washer works well to clean out DPF's. Just done the one on my Vito van.
Cheers Col.


206cc 1.6ltr (Wifes toy)
Mercedes ML (workhorse)
Corvette C3 (my toy)

When requesting help of a technical nature, please give as much detail of the fault as possible along with details of exact model, engine size & type, gearbox, year, mileage, and any relevant work carried out to try to solve the problem to help us help you.
Better still, put the details in your signature.

IanL
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 10:34 pm
Location: Jersey, Channel Islands

Re: P0238

Post by IanL »

Try Chrome translate :)

Artermis
Posts: 109
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Location: Grimsby, UK

Re: P0238

Post by Artermis »

Capncol wrote:Can't read French Ian, but if it's a cleaning product, I find a pressure washer works well to clean out DPF's. Just done the one on my Vito van.
Translated for you Col and included here as useful info for anyone else searching the forum:
External Source wrote:particulate filter This type of Eolys 176 cereal injection particle filter is a device that only equips PSA Peugeot / Citroën diesel vehicles.

It consists of:

- An envelope incorporating a pre-catalyst followed by a filter medium. The latter is a porous silicon carbide structure that permanently traps the particles as the exhaust passes. Sensors control the clogging pressure of the filter and the temperature of the gases upstream and downstream of the system.

- Software, integrated in the electronic engine box. It controls the regeneration of the filter every 400 to 500 km depending on the clogging condition of the filter and ensures the self-diagnosis of the system. During the entire regeneration period of the filter, the air supply is derived, no longer go through the air / air heat exchanger and no longer be cooled, but instead to go through a heater to increase the temperature of the mixture arriving in the combustion chamber and getting warmer exhaust gases.

- A fuel additive device incorporating a draw system, an Eolys injection system in the main tank and a specific calculator. The Eolys is stored in an additional tank placed near the fuel tank. It is injected proportionally to the volume of fuel introduced during filling. For example, for a full 60 liters, the system will inject 37.50 ml of solution containing 1.9 g of ceria. The tank, with a capacity of 5 liters, provides a range of 80000 km. A cleaning of the filter and the filling of the additional tank in Eolys will take place every 80000 km at a dealer.

Its operating principle consists in trapping and storing carbon and hydrocarbon particles on a filter and periodically burning them. The natural combustion of these particles is carried out at about 550 ° C while the initial temperature of the gases is 150 ° C at the collector outlet.

This combustion is made possible thanks to:
- A post-injection in the relaxation phase which creates a post-combustion in the cylinder which causes an increase in the temperature of the gases of 200 to 250 ° C (ie 350 to 400 ° C).

- A complementary post-combustion, generated by an oxidation catalyst placed upstream of the filter, which processes the unburned hydrocarbons from the post-injection. The temperature can increase by 100 ° C (ie 450 to 500 ° C).

- Fuel additivation by Eolys. This ceria-based compound lowers the particle combustion temperature to 450 ° C.
It basically explains how the Eolys fluid helps the regeneration process. It says the particles trapped by the DPF would naturally combust at 550oC but with the addition of the Eolys fluid this lowers the reaction temperature and allows the particles to combust at 450oC, so it should essentially make for a more thorough regeneration process.
Ben. 2006 1.6 HDi Allure

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