Does 2001 1.6petrol manual have smart charge?

[puzzledbloke]

Hi. My daughter has a 206cc, 1.6 petrol manual,51 plate preplex. Yesterday it lit the battery symbol and popped up a charge warning message. I'm hoping to have a look tomorrow. Seen some suggestions that it may have smart charge, linked by a single wire that carries bidirectional comms.

Does anybody know please if her car will have this smart charge and any information about it. In particular, does it have a default "lost communications, act like standard alternator) so I can test by unplugging the wire, and so she can drive it till I can investigate properly. If it does, is that going to try to be a fixed voltage - 13.8v or whatever...

If charging voltages seem to be OK, and connections ok, im head scratching.any other pointers most gratefully received!


Thanks very much for any help, really appreciated.

[GrandadMonkey]

Are you sure it is not the Remote control battery in the ignition key that needs replacing?

[Capncol]

No smart charge. Std Valio type alternator.

[puzzledbloke]

Thanks very much Col. I'll follow my nose in that case. Do you happen to know if the control electronics are on the alternator or separately mounted please? I've seen a reference somewhere to a control unit on top of the inner wing, iirc... I noticed one battery supplier specified calcium, wondered if charging was optimised for that. No idea what's currently fitted....

Grandadmonkey - not considered that, much to learn about these!. It started and ran ok, just had the ignition warning light and charging message displayed. She tried to start it again yesterday (not used since Saturday) and it was apparently completely dead, so battery on charge for 24hrs...

[gazza82]

Nothing as simple as a worn/faulty aux belt tensioner?

I think the alternator electronics as internal to it .. they should be plug-and-play on replacements .. just sometimes they are not in the most accessible part of the engine bay ...

[puzzledbloke]

Thank you for that. It may be the tensioner. Not had any reports of noise or heavy steering but will look at that first. Are worn out tensioners a common issue on these engines? Its got about 110k on it so no spring chicken. As for accessible, not looked yet... Can't be worse than some luxury modern stuff - friend told me the other day something you basically have to lift body off to access alternator. Mad...

[gazza82]

As in dismantling the entire front of a SmartCar to change a parking bulb ...

[puzzledbloke]

Yes...I have a Mazda 6, according to handbook dealer job to change dip beam bulb (bumper off,light out). I'm an old bloke and not small but I can get a hand in (just). Sometimes overcautious. But sometimes - good grief. Had a look at repair guide, doesn't look too bad. (Flw)...

Thanks very much everybody.

[Capncol]

Alternator is self contained

[puzzledbloke]

Sorry to be back again with another question. Finally got 10 min with the car today. The alternator has a two pin connector on it, with two wires, one red and one I think white or possibly pale green/grey. (poor light).

Connector fits into a socket which has a housing roughly square with rounded corners. Wires terminate in a plug that rectangular. I couldn't get it out as it wouldn't unlatch and I didn't have time to work on it (doing respite care at the moment while my brother-in-law is in hospital).
The red (nearest the main body of the alternator) had 10.7v on it (battery terminals 11.7v). The other showed 0v. All relative to battery -ve terminal.

Reading around, two pin connection might be warning light and separate field exciter, so maybe a blown fuse. But other references suggest shared light and exciter on the red witre and the second terminal may be an output to provide an enable for something to do with power steering.

Fusebox is unlabelled, but nothing else is reported not working. Didn't have time to check fuses, the under bonnet fusebox has a different layout to any shown in the handbooks on here.

Please could anybody tell me if I should have roughly battery voltage on both pins ignition on? And if the second pin (furthest from the main body of the alternator) is fed via a fuse, perhaps of its own?

Starting car made no difference. Battery warning on dash lights on ignition on and goes out when car starts. ( Daughter says it comes on after about 5min, together with charge warning message.)

As usual, my ignorance is showing....

Many thanks again.

[Capncol]

I Think you are over thinking this. You have 1X heavy Pos cable connected, and on pin 2 (wire 104) of the 2 pin connector comes from the ECU. You will have battery voltage at the thick wire irrespective of key position, and you will have battery voltage on wire 104 with ign on/ not running and zero volts on pin 2 of alt. Everything else is controlled within the alternator

The alternator has failed.

[puzzledbloke]

Thanks yet again Col. My initial thought was brushes probably gone, but without a wiring diagram it was guesswork and I'd have hated to fiddle about with taking off the belt and PS pump to find it was a blown fuse...now I know, I'll get stuck in first chance I get.
Thanks again, really is much appreciated

Alan

[gazza82]

More likely to be the rectifier circuit ... probably just need a replacement alternator.

[puzzledbloke]

Just as a final followup and thank you for all the help. I got the old unit (denso) off, pulled the cover and the adaptor plate off, then the brush holder/regulator. Not as easy as it sounds as there was a fair amount of something like silicone sealant glueing much of those bits together. It's not obvious how the brushes come out, but also they looked not quite worn out. A replacement brush holder/regulator unit was £30; a complete second hand alternator, next day delivery, £24. So that's what it now has fitted. This too has a swodge of silicone in it, so presumably it left the factory like that. Disconnected from the alternator, both small wires had 12v ish on, neither had any marking on the small terminals, but I've found some diagrams which suggest one of these is dfi.

I'll be keeping an eye on it, just to see it's not cooking the battery, but it's certainly charging. Thanks again for all the help, it really is appreciated.

[GrandadMonkey]

Well done, thanks for the update. Hope it is now completely sorted.